lumix s1 dynamic range

lumix s1 dynamic range

It’s possible this was an artefact of the temporal noise reduction. Panasonic has launched two cameras as part of its new Lumix S series, with different resolutions, user types and price points. Let us know in the comments below. Panasonic LUMIX DC-S1 – Starts at $2,499 – at B&H Photo Video/Adorama/Amazon; Panasonic LUMIX DC-S1R – Starts at $3,699 – at … Na starcie jest więc droższy niż bezpośredni konkurenci: Canon EOS R (10 499 zł), Nikon Z6 (9500 zł) i Sony A7 III (8700 zł). Anyway if you are not able to understand this then I guess there is no more discussion possible! You should consider performing tests using an HDR colour space after a transformation LUT unless you use RAW as SNR is impacted by log compression in the darks. Shooting in HLG gives you the best options for delivering content for both HDR- and SDR-use. IMATEST dynamic range result Panasonic S1H in 5952×3968 (full frame 3:2 mode) V-Log ISO4000. Simplest way is too record externally. The Canon sensor, although still a good performer, is around a stop behind, crossing the same 20-bit mark when set to ISO 1600. The Blackmagic cameras have a very solid, organic feel to the image. His Panasonic S1H review and the short documentary he made as part of this review are now online and can be watched by clicking here. At ISO 25,600, all three congregate around our cut-off point for acceptable image quality (14 bits). There are two new cameras with two different sensors. Additional features will include V-Log recording with 14+ stops of dynamic range, in-camera LUT application both during and after recording, and a waveform monitor. But this is why IMATEST has the option to normalize signal level by selecting “maximum detected patch level” in the analysis. Seems very odd not to include downscaled 1080p analysis and to compare 6K/4K against Alexa 2k/1080p downscaled output…. Photons to Photo has just published the dynamic range result of Panasonic Lumix S1R full frame mirrorless. The Lumix S1 is Panasonic's answer to the popular Sony A7 III, but it has a few tricks up its sleeve. Hi Geoffrey, I am not sure I understand your comment – could you elaborate a bit? What happened with that 16 stop firmware update? And the HFR stuff. All rights reserved. If you had to resample each pixel in the frame would have been pixel binned and outputted real time and this is not something any NLE or photography application for that matter supports. Fig. It’s 6k at 12 bit so there’s no way to get 12.7 stops of range… Unless… the S1H is doing highlight reconstruction before baking a movie format. Hi Dennis, interesting observation – what makes you think it’s temporal noise reduction that is involved here? For its first foray into full-frame cameras, Panasonic has selected a CMOS sensor with the same 24MP resolution as that used by both the Sony A7 III and the Nikon Z 6. If this is the case then there’s no sensor mode that does 6k at 14 bit. This is the second-best result that we have ever measured, right after the ARRI Alexa (14 stops at SNR=2). I also think what we see could be partially related to the high compression. With the exception of the top-most ISO values, where the Sony has the lowest noise levels in our SNR 18% graph shown below, the Panasonic and Sony share practically identical, class-leading results. Summary of cinema5D lab results for the Panasonic S1H. Waveform plot of the Xyla 21 step chart Panasonic S1H 5952×3968 Full frame V-Log ISO4000. If you’ve got a Lumix camera you’ve probably noticed a setting in the menus called i.Dynamic. Let’s start with the worst scenario: the 6K 3:2 mode should have the highest rolling shutter, as all the vertical 3968 pixels from top to bottom have to be captured for each frame. NLE does not perform resampling and averaging of pixels they simply trash pixels. On the video front, the headline feature is that the S1 can shoot 4K (3840×2160) at 60fps and 150Mbps. Hence I hope all your worries are now finally answered and we can move on ;-), Not at all because you are using a space that is smaller than the measurement you want to make so you are destroying information in the process of normalising in a space that is too small. On the ZCAM I disagree – I have only shot the ZCAM E2 in ProRes (not H265), but the image is a strong, full depth organic (cinematic) image with very pleasing colors – that you can push any way you want. Log compression is done in such a way that you can pack more DR in a smaller space so the outcome will be higher than the readout if the sensor can manage the extra DR. Where this camera will hit the limit is the fact that the V-log implementation is 10 bits not 12 and therefore there is additional scaling applied. A rolling shutter of 13.9 [ms] is measured for the Panasonic S1H in 4K DCI Super 35 mode at 59.94 fps. Pocket-lint Promotion, . This is the sort of “normalizing” that you meant previously, right? Do we know what sensor is in the S1H? More than 12 stops can be identified at ISO4000 (even the 13th stop looks still quite solid to my eye). Read on…. The Lumix S1 is, until the S1H arrives later this year, the more video focussed of the S1 line. S1R to wydatek 15 999 zł, z kolei Lumix S1 został wyceniony na 10 899 zł. Third, the spec sheet mentions a low pass filter that is used to reduce Moiré. If we compare 5.9K 16:9 (19.5 Megapixel) to 4K DCI (8.8 Megapixel) we have about 2.2 times the pixels to encode – it equals to about 80Mbit/s H265 4:2:0 compared to 420Mbit/s H264 4:2:2 for 4K. Hi Interceptor121 of course we reply to our readers ;-) The thing with your suggestion to normalize to Rec709 is: what is “normalization” actually? As mentioned at the beginning of the article, the list of resolutions/codecs/ frame rates/crop options on the Panasonic S1H is endless, and bearing in mind the fact that this camera offers two native ISO’s (640 and 4000 in V-Log), I had to focus at these key areas: 6K 3:2, 5.9K 16:9, 4K DCI full frame and Super 35 in 24p, 30p and 60p. They are usually switched on by default and must be explicitly turned off. Paired with a new VENUS processor, the stabilized 24MP CMOS sensor in the S1 delivers a high native ISO range up to 51,200; bursts at up to 9 fps in AFS mode; and 6 fps with continuous AF. Nevertheless, the specs are impressive as is the price – so will it live up to the high expectations? When you combine a high-performing sensor with a proven AF system, built-in stabilization, 9 fps continuous shooting, and a relatively new lens mount backed by influential lens makers, you have a highly capable camera and the beginnings of a promising system that can pose a serious challenge to the top three camera makers. Price: $3,698 The current method does not create any meaningful comparison between cameras. Compact digital cameras DMC-LC5 and DMC-F7 were the first products of the Lumix series, released in 2001.. Is this enough to encode the noise in the lower stops properly? You have a point there (coming from the Blackmagic world myself too). 12 stops can be identified above the noise floor. All three cameras in this comparison perform well, most particularly the Panasonic and Sony, which just cross our 20-bit reference for good image quality when set to ISO 3200 (our current benchmark for this sensor size and resolution). Ghosting and smearing artifacts even appear at native ISO settings, but these artifacts even do appear in 4K/UHD. This is a very high value – the rolling shutter is partially mitigated thanks to the stabilized sensor so handheld shooting is no problem but takes it slow on pans. If look at canon you still have 848 as max but canon clips the lower range is around 100 so much closer to the alexa value I can already foresee your procedure will penalise canon log less. Also it gets worse the higher the ISO gets till ISO 3200 where noise and noise reduction are the strongest. It has a native ISO range of 100 through 51200. !Anyway, I’m going to take as close of a look as I can and will report back here if I have any findings.I like the camera so far, and especially love that they power on and roll with no boot time. Please be patient for now…, We may see the real Dynamic range of the camera recording to ProRes Raw, unless Panasonic figures out how to denoise that as well. Is the full frame 4K DCI image much closer to the “raw” image of the sensor? In this review, we have compared the Panasonic Lumix DC-S1 to its most relevant rivals from other brands. Or re-do the test in ProRes Raw when that’s working. Using X265 I can compress grainy 4K footage down to 20Mbit with preserving all the grain. Without getting too tech, maybe this can be rectified somehow? Video. I don’t know. To help you read through this post, it is organized as follows: If you are not familiar with how we test dynamic range in our lab, have a look here first. No spam, guaranteed! Even more surprising is the fact, that there is almost no difference between ISO640 and ISO4000 in 4K DCI mode – only 0.1 stops of dynamic range are lost switching to the higher ISO value – very impressive! Fascinated by the new possibilities with small cameras. Read the Panasonic Lumix S1 review. 2: Dynamic Range comparison of the Panasonic LUMIX S1 – it comes in just behind the URSA Mini Pro 4.6 If we compare this result to the Dynamic Range of the Panasonic GH5S in HLG mode (ISO800, NR = 0) coming in at 9.9 stops, this is about 2.3 stops higher! Depending on the gap between the log curve and the gamma curve of your tiff your results are skewed differently and can be predicted almost without making any measurements. It achieves all this while maintaining low noise levels (as we’ve also seen with the Nikon Z6 and the Sony), which demonstrates that 24MP full-frame CMOS BSI-type sensors offer a desirable balance between pixel count and sensor dynamics. Reducing the color space? Then when you normalise your tiff of the zip file you are corrupting the information further because normalisation is meant to happen in a standard gamma corrected image. The Panasonic Lumix DC-S1 is the company’s first mid-range, full-frame mirrorless camera. All in all, I am impressed – the dynamic range results are exceptional. Seems like the only number that really matters is DR at 1080p downscaled from various sensor/recording modes since that is the only data that can be directly compared as some other cameras where only tested at 1080p and we know that testing at 1080p gives an advantage in this measurement. You need to either review your procedures and apply a LUT or measure in rec709 to eliminate the bias in your procedure because the procedure does not deal with log correctly, Dear Interceptor121, you are making completely wrong assumptions. We only send updates about our most relevant articles. None of these cameras apply temporal noise reduction. I could not see any macro blocking in the shadows so it does looks robust to my eye. Thanks, Gunther. Notice that we are getting almost exactly the same result as with ISO 640! The situation improves slightly at full frame 4K DCI settings. Second, we can see that the image in 6K and 5.9K at ISO640 is less noisy compared to 4K DCI. Waveform plot of the Xyla 21 step chart Panasonic S1H at 4K DCI Full frame V-Loog ISO640 showing 12 stops above the noise floor. Certainly if you are looking for a Netflix certified camera (Full information can be found by clicking here and here). So, is the Panasonic S1H worth the 4000 USD versus the 2500USD Panasonic S1 (+200USD for the V-Log upgrade)? Hi Wayne – not sure what you mean? Seems that noise reduction (speculation #2 above) is not so present here. If you plot a manufacturer log against another you can see that the values are different. At least the listened about turning off sharpening completely. A rolling shutter of 24.2 [ms] is measured for the Panasonic S1H in 4K DCI full frame mode at 23.98 fps. Hearsay says it’s the Sony IMX451. Cameras I’ve tried personally showing the issueSony A73 (NR -7, high ISO be off)Sony A7s2 (NR -7, high ISO be off)Fuji XT-3 (NR -4, interframe NR off)GoPro 6 and 8Panasonic GH5 (got way better with later firmware 2.0)Panasonic G85 (NR -5)Panasonic GH4 (NR -5, temporal noise reduction is off externally)Panasonic S1 (NR 0, V-LOG)Panasonic S1H (NR 0, V-LOG)Every smart phone so far. And the DCI 4K DR numbers are great too …. Between ISO 800 and ISO 1600, though, the Panasonic S1 sensor has a wider dynamic range than even the class-leading Sony. Andreapazzo. Gunther, I would love to see side-by-side comparison shots where you can visibly demonstrate the “it feels thin, lacks depth in a way” comments about the S1H against a camera that does not show these issues. Fingers crossed. With its 47.3-megapixel sibling, Panasonic Lumix S1R, the Lumix S1 is Panasonic’s first foray into full-frame mirrorless photography. It also has an electronic viewfinder with a 5.76 million-dot OLED-type display, and adjustable magnification from 0.7 to 0.78x. So it is possible for this implementation to produce 14 stops DR with around 24 bits colour which is fine for practical use. Price: $2,500 #19 Panasonic Lumix S1R (Tied) Delivers 9.4 stops of dynamic range at ISO 1600. I’m hoping that a future S1H firmware update will allow you to turn off all sharpening and noise reduction, which might result in a more “organic” image. Spoiler alert: lab results are very impressive – the Panasonic S1H is the first camera in our tests, that shows nearly identical dynamic range results for the two ISO settings of the dual gain sensor! You can now see the comparison of Panasonic S1R with Sony a7R III, Nikon Z7 and Leica Q2.It seems that S1R is sensor is not same as Leica Q2’s sensor. LUMIX S1R świetnie nadaje się do wykonywania zdjęć w wysokiej rozdzielczości, LUMIX S1 pozwala na wykonywanie wysokiej jakości zdjęć i filmów, a LUMIX S1H został stworzony z myślą o nagrywaniu. And yes, it is an issue created by badly implemented motion compensation used to reduce noise -> temporal noise reduction. Click here to open our interactive DxOMark image sensor ranking tool. The Lumix S1 has a 24 megapixel sensor and sells for $2500 for the body. I had a beautiful 24-105mm and 70-200mm lens with it. For your info, comparing the Panasonic S1H 4K DCI dynamic range results to the Panasonic S1 UHD results, we are getting almost equal numbers: 12.3 stops for the S1H, 12.2 stops for the S1 at SNR = 2. Hi Rolf.Sorry, nothing new we can share here.Hope to get the chance and test the S1H at some point. For that sub-score, it is even very slightly ahead of the highest-ranked sensor (the Hasselblad X1D-50c). The Lumix S1 is one of two cameras built to answer the call, and is aimed at existing Lumix users as well as both professional and high-end enthusiast photographers. Read our full Privacy Policy here. Finally, we were able to put the Panasonic S1H to the test in our cinema5D lab. Dear Interceptor121, we always try to improve our engineering knowledge ;-) actually you are giving most of the answers yourself. Also I have been looking at h265 encoding lately and am finding there is something a bit odd as it naturally applies a lot of noise reduction and shifts shadow contrast somewhat achieve its greater efficiency. And if you don't like our newsletter, you can unsubscribe with a single click, the link is at the bottom of every newsletter. The latest firmware has resolved an issue that caused image ghosting. Looking at the waveform plot of the step chart the IMATEST result is confirmed – about 13 stops above the noise floor can be identified, see the plot above. The official Varicam LUT pack from Panasonic has 35 LUT’s. All these cameras but the GH4 have the same issue recorded externally to Prores HQ also. Tried both the Atomos Shogun 7 and Oddysey 7q+ in the past. More than 12 stops can be identified above the noise floor. I want to see what is visibly going on…, Hi Guy, we had to return the camera already so I can’t do this test (would love to) – I probably shouldn’t talk about something that is hard to put into words. Delivers 9.5 stops of dynamic range at ISO 160; Price: $899 #19 Panasonic Lumix S1 (Tied) Delivers 9.4 stops of dynamic range at ISO 1600. You seem to imply that I am measuring in a „smaller space“ – rec709 space as you are saying above. Broadcast safe? The Lumix S1 is one of two inaugural models in Panasonic’s Lumix S series, the other being the high-resolution S1R. As cameras do not resolve 10 bit colour there will still be headroom for greys that are monochromatic. How does it affect the dynamic range captured by the camera? Even less attractive now. That said, the methodology seems odd here, arent you comparing to Alexa which was only tested at 2K? As usual, you can create your own comparisons and in-depth analyses using our interactive image sensor ranking tool. Looking at the waveform below, this result is confirmed. Beyond both video and stile photography, the 24.2-megapixel camera promises a more dynamic range, expansion, color and less light performance compared to the Lumix G range of Panasonic, which uses small four-third sensor. And this is the reason for some of your measures differences. Looking at the various frame rates and resolutions, as well as the full frame and Super 35 modes of this camera, this turned out to be quite an endeavour. The cameras listed here are among the best, and provide the most number of stops of dynamic range currently available. I am interested to see if that affects the dynamic range in just 6k or across the board. Read more about our Comment Policy. The measurement of DR has nothing to do with the gamma curve or the signal value – and I would ask you not to spread misinformation here in the comments section. In this video, I’ll show you a quick comparison of Panasonic Lumix S1 10 bit V-Log output vs normal standard profile vs GH5S 10 bit V-Log L vs Sony A7III 8 bit S-Log2. How much is this compared to an Sigma FP again? What you see on the S1H is heavy temporal noise reduction applied to the 5.9 und 6K modes and the reason for their higher dynamic range.Also the reason why these modes have many issues with any types of motion, especially with low contrast (objects out of focus, similar hues etc.). I am extracting I- frames from the camera file in high quality tiff. Passionate shooter who isn't doing this for a living. It’s not that easy – so in the specific case of the S1H (VLOG), which “official” LUT would you choose from Panasonic? This now is a good result – but again the Panasonic S1 was better at 10.4 [ms] at 25 fps. Are you sure the temporal noise reduction you’re seeing isn’t just a side effect of aggressive compression? Furthermore, the fact that the dual gain sensor shows very similar dynamic range results (in 4K DCI) at both ISO640 and ISO4000 settings is phenomenal. Which is 6K for the S1H.Having said that, I totally agree to your observation – in H265 the image looks superclean, „thin“ and without depth in a strange way.Hard to describe what it is. Sony has the same. Log curve are provided and manufacturers provide LUTs too as they just decompress a formula this has nothing to do with grading. ISO 4000 V-Log 4K DCI (4096×2160) Full frame Dynamic Range Results: Another surprise – in 4K DCI mode almost the same result as for 6K and 5.9K is now achieved – 12.2 stops. I like technical discussions but we are not getting anywhere as it seems. I’ve been shooting recently with the S1. As the table below shows, the 24MP Panasonic S1 sensor performance is ahead of its rival from Canon, the 30.3MP Canon EOS R, with the Panasonic delivering better results in all test areas. Or just spend money only for RED and ARRI cameras because other manufacturers keep hurting their image by “enhancing” it. So yes, I am not getting your point unfortunately …, You are creating a tiff of a zip file because log is a way of compressing data. The test results are practically identical to those of the sensor used in the highly-acclaimed Sony A7 III, and in some areas, such as dynamic range, the S1 is able to offer an advantage in the highly desirable ISO 800 to ISO 1600 range, not just at base ISO 100. ISO 640 V-Log 4K DCI (4096×2160) Full Frame Dynamic Range Results: Next up is 4K DCI (4096×2160) in full frame mode. I am not sure where to start with an answer – if you want to discuss something more specifically I am happy to do so. Hopefully this is clear, Hi Interceptor121, I understand (partially) where you are coming from, as all cameras distribute the signal values differently in the different LOG formats. IMATEST dynamic range result Panasonic S1H in 5952×3968 (full frame 3:2 mode) V-Log ISO640. or the Locon 709? The Canon EOS R also performs very well in this test, but at 1/3 stop (0.28 EV) behind, it doesn’t quite match the Panasonic S1 or the Sony A7 III sensors. Panasonic Lumix S1R. The same artifacts occur. My colleague Johnnie might also help us with this decision. © 2020 All rights reserved. (I just purchased) So far, after years of m43 and before that 35mm, I moved to this system and am liquidating tons of 43 stuff.And yes, there is something strange about the high rez modes of this camera. When you use i.Dynamic, … Waveform plot of the Xyla 21 step chart Panasonic S1H at 4K DCI Full frame V-Log ISO4000. Problem is, footage recorded externally in ProRes HQ shows the same issues. Hence our method to use the files straight out of camera, be them LOG or not. Crushing shadows? As described by my colleagues Nino, Jeff, and Johnnie in detail here, the Panasonic S1H is designed with a “video first” mindset by Panasonic and ticks a lot of my personal boxes. In this mode at 23.98 frames per second, the Panasonic S1H has a rolling shutter of 29.7 [ms]. Second to the Arri in a lineup that doesn’t include any of Arri’s competitors, No REDs, no Venice, no Varicam, no C700 etc. The Lumix S5 Dynamic Range and Color . Anyway as long as the issues in the measurements are clear anybody can draw the right conclusions on the accuracy of the results that are obviously skewed, Let me spell it out so it is clearer.You record a log clip but measure it inside a rec709 space without a LUT.For example of ARRI log this has a limit at 3% IRE bit value 89 the top of the range you measure is 90% which is 848 total valid bits 759 on the ARRI log scale.The S1H has panasonic V-log whose minimum is 7% bit value 128 the top remains 848 as this is a rec709 limit. As part of Panasonic's entry into full-frame mirrorless, the Lumix DC-S1 is a well-rounded camera offering advanced feature-sets for both stills and video, along with a robust physical construction. It outperforms the Lumix S1 and Nikon Z 6II and is roughly comparable to the Sony a7C. 12.3 stops are calculated for SNR = 2. At the rear, the S1 has a 3.2-inch touchscreen monitor that can both tilt and flip. Podczas zeszłorocznych targów Photokina Panasonic wraz z Sigmą i Leiką zapowiedziały strategiczną współpracę zawiązaną wokół mocowania L a świat ujrzały prototypy dwóch pełnoklatkowych bezlusterkowców.Aparaty dzielą ten sam korpus ale zostały opracowane z myślą o zupełnie innym odbiorcy. At base ISO 100, the Panasonic achieves a marginally-higher maximum of 25.2 bits, and there’s a slightly higher value at both ISO 800 and ISO 1600. Applying a LUT? For a full frame sensor, those values are average. Blackmagic applies some spatial NR on their braw and ProRes footage, but it doesn’t really create any artifacts or make your footage look like shot with a 360° shutter angle. Relatives are fine so establish a camera as benchmark and just say how much better or worse the camera being tested is would be totally acceptable and stop people blagging about DRThank you for making the time to read my comments and have a nice day. It is built around the existing L-mount originally developed by Leica, which is now also supported by Sigma as part of the so-called “L-mount alliance.”. Panasonic claims this cam to be a 14+ stops camera, which is close to the signal to noise ratio = 1 result (13.8 stops) – as mentioned earlier we are a little more strict here and use the SNR = 2 result of 12.7 stops as the official cinema5D rating (following ARRI’s logic). Cut my teeth on the Panasonic GH series, always looking to keep the gear as small as possible on my travels through the world, where I am telling cinematic stories as a hobby. The image looks great, maybe a bit thin, until you have areas with low contrast detail in motion and it gets worse the higher the ISO or the darker the subject is. And they shed water… Thanks. As a video codec, H265 10bit 4:2:0 (HEVC) at around 200Mbit/s is the default for the 6K 3:2 and 5.9K 16:9 modes (I measured around 180Mbit/s for the step chart video files). Wow, you made it until this point? With just one point between them in the DxOMark rankings and similar Portrait, Landscape, and Sports scores, the new Lumix DC-S1 sensor performs practically identically to its most direct competitors. The Panasonic S1 has a native sensitivity range of ISO 100-51,200 with expansion settings pushing to ISO 50-204,800.

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